Begin by working with your group members to construct a statement of "the point" of Oedipus (you can download my PowerPoint presentation here if you need to refer back to it). Different members of your group might see the play differently, so work to shape the statement into something you're all happy with.
Next, find a short passage in the text (10-15 lines is ideal) that addresses what you see as the point of the play. Choose 2 or 3 key words in this passage and discuss how these words color the way we see the point; think about similar words that the author (or, in our case, the translator) might have chosen and speculate why he chose these words rather than similar ones.
You will almost certainly find that the passage you choose does not merely illustrate this point, but complicates it in some way. Write a brief paragraph explaining how your understanding of the point changes when considering this passage in particular rather than the story as a whole.
Have one person from your group post your work as a comment on this post.
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ReplyDeleteGroup 3
ReplyDeleteThroughout his life, Oedipus made it his goal to escape his fate by leaving his family and home, but in reality his actions just brought him closer to his fate, and in this process he only ended up harming more people than if he had simply accepted his fate originally. You can’t escape your fate or live ignorantly happy.
Chorus:
But now whose tale is more miserable?
1390 Who is there lives with a savager fate?
Whose troubles so reverse his life as his?
O Oedipus, the famous prince
for whom a great have
the same both as a father and son
1395 sufficed for generation,
how, O how, have the furrows plowed
by your father endured to bear you, poor wretch, and hold their peace so long?
Time who sees all has found you out
1400 against your will; judges your marriage accursed,
begetter and begot at one in it.
These key words show that a person’s life is destined to be awful given their fate and that they will live a wretched life, as Oedipus did. Our original point suggests that accepting your fate will always be the best decision and your life will not be full of hardships. However, this passage contradicts that by saying that in accepting your fate you will still be forced to live a miserable life battling things that are against your will.
Group 8:
ReplyDeleteThe point is that it is better to accept your identity and history, not question the gods, and live life actively pursuing a better future rather than trying to cover up the past. If you try to change fate, life will only get worse. For example, Jocasta hanging herself and Oedipus' blinding were not part of the original prophecy. Fate and true identity are inescapable and are even more so when one actively tries to avoid them. A quote that accurately sums up this point is when Oedipus declares, "I would never have been saved from death. I have been saved for something great and terrible, something strange" (Line 1595). Some key words that we found were blind and destiny. Oedipus is “blind” in a sense to the fact that his fate is inevitable. Also, the moment in which he physically blinds himself alludes the fact that he and those around him have made active decisions which have “blinded” him to his identity. In terms of destiny, all of the play’s action stems from characters receiving their destinies from Apollo, then trying to change them, themselves. Oedipus spends an excessive amount of time trying to deny his own destiny in life and makes his life worse as a result.
Group 5
ReplyDeleteWe thought the point of the play was to not be rash about the decisions you make. While looking at this passage, we realized that the rash decisions that Oedipus made may not have truly affected the end result. His fate was sealed at his birth, and despite the decisions he made, he was destined to fulfill the prophecy. This passage demonstrates Oedipus’ realization that the murderer he cursed in front of all of Thebes was indeed himself, and that he had put “curses on [himself]” that would lead to his end. In the beginning of the play, as he addressed the citizens, Oedipus declared that the murderer would be “doomed” and “exiled”. He later used these words to describe himself in the passage we chose. So his quick action to reassure the citizens of Thebes ultimately reinforces his fate.
Group 2: Ashley, Cody, Meghan, Taylor
ReplyDeletePoint: Due to fear, Oedipus had extreme interest in altering his fate, which ultimately lead to his downfall.
Jocasta “What should a man fear? It’s all chance, chance, chance rules our lives. Not a man on earth can see a day ahead, groping through the dark. Better to live at random, best we can. And as for this marriage with your mother-have no fear. Many a man before you, in his dreams, has shared his mother’s bed. Take such things for shadows, nothing at all-Live, Oedipus, as if there’s no tomorrow! (Lines 1068-1077)
Oedipus “Brave words, and you’d persuade me if mother weren’t alive. But mother lives, so for all your reassurances I live in fear, I must.” (Lines 178-181)
Key words: Fear, chance
-fear: to get the point across of how Oedipus lived his life everyday, shows emotion, author would’ve chose a different word if fear wasn’t such a big issue in Oedipus’s life
-chance: basically the opposite of the story, used as a comforting word to try and convince Oedipus that it wasn’t him and he won’t have to deal with this problem
In this passage Jocasta tries to invalidate the prophecy, but Oedipus is still fearful. Oedipus has to decide whether he really wants to continue pursuit of his past, and discover the source of his ultimate fear. From reading this, we realized that the reason for his search is entirely fear-driven. Because Jocasta is strongly opposed to the prophecy, Oedipus encounters another reason to postpone finding his past. Regardless, Oedipus’s fear ends up destroying him, indicating that living life in fear is an ineffective way to live.
Group 6
ReplyDeleteGROUP PROMPT: OEDIPUS
Trying too hard to find truth
Good qualities turning against you
Too much power
Can’t escape fate (nobody is above fate)
Even a wealth of power cannot save you from your fate.
Is it really better to know the truth if the end product is unavoidable?
The obsessive pursuit of truth can be your demise
Despite Oedipus’ efforts to run from the fate his gods laid upon him, he ultimately is unable to impede his prophecy.
Sometimes, the qualities which typically bring you positive results, can also be your downfall.
Pertinent quote:
“...your zeal is invaluable, if a right one; but if wrong, the greater the zeal the greater the evil; and therefore we ought to consider whether these things shall be done or not.” (Socrates 34) - Crito
The point:
Some of the very qualities which brought Oedipus fame, power, and trust/credibility also proved to be his downfall. Not even the king himself, can escape Fate, no matter how much he wishes to deny it. Attempting to do so may even make it worse, as shown in how Oedipus’ birth parents tried to evade the prophecy and, in doing so, only succeeded in bringing the prophecy to fruition.
CHORUS: People of Thebes, my countrymen, look on Oedipus.
DeleteHe solved the famous riddle with his brilliance,
he rose to power, a man beyond all power.
Who could behold his greatness without envy?
Now what a black sea of terror has overwhelmed him.
Now as we keep our watch and wait the final day,
count no man happy till he dies, free of pain at last.
This passage deals with how no man, however powerful, can escape fate while also summarizing Oedipus’ experience simultaneously. The chorus’ phrasing not only shows their contempt for their king after he revealed his actions, but also shows that his pursuit of the prophecy made it self-fulfilling. Now he has to deal with the consequences of his actions, which could have been avoided if he thought through his decisions more.
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ReplyDeleteGroup 4
ReplyDeleteThe Point: There is a conflict between the divine and the mortal over the issue of free will and control of the one’s destiny through Oedipus’ ignorant refusal to accept the fate he was born into stemming from his overconfidence in his own abilities, and his arrogance toward Apollo and his prophets.
The Passage:
(from a different translation)
TEIRESIAS: I say that you yourself
are the very man you’re looking for.
OEDIPUS: That’s twice you’ve stated that disgraceful lie—
something you’ll regret.
TEIRESIAS: Shall I tell you more,
so you can grow even more enraged?
OEDIPUS: As much as you desire. It will be useless.
TEIRESIAS: I say that with your dearest family,
unknown to you, you are living in disgrace. 440
You have no idea how bad things are.
OEDIPUS: Do you really think you can just speak out,
say things like this, and still remain unpunished?
TEIRESIAS: Yes, I can, if the truth has any strength.
OEDIPUS: It does, but not for you. Truth is not in you— [370]
for your ears, your mind, your eyes are blind!
TEIRESIAS: You are a wretched fool to use harsh words
which all men soon enough will use to curse you.
OEDIPUS: You live in endless darkness of the night,
so you can never injure me or any man 450
who can glimpse daylight.
TEIRESIAS: It is not your fate
to fall because of me. It’s up to Apollo
to make that happen. He will be enough.
OEDIPUS: Is this something Creon has devised,
or is it your invention?
TEIRESIAS: Creon is no threat.
You have made this trouble on your own.
2-3 Words: Fate, Truth, Blind
Fate: Following the point that we defined, mortals struggle to accept the fate that has been placed upon them by the divine.
Truth: In relation with how Sophocles presents being ‘Blind,’ ‘Truth’ is the matter which Oedipus is blind to. ‘Truth’ works as the irony that the audience witnesses, as we know the story of Oedipus, while the characters struggle to uncover it.
Blind: The word is used figuratively to describe Oedipus denying that he has fulfilled the prophecy. The word “blind” is also used as a foreshadow for Oedipus’ literally gouging out his eyes.
When considering the drama as a whole, the idea that Oedipus and even Jocasta are unable to escape their fate as decided by the gods is a main point. Upon examination of the passage above, it becomes more prevalent that ignorance and arrogance are flaws of the mortals. Oedipus struggles to understand that, despite his power on earth, he cannot overcome this prophecy put forth by the gods. Yet he doesn’t comprehend his faults causing his arrogance to blind him to the truth of his fate.
The main point: The dichotomy between Oedipus’ brilliance and arrogance proved to be both the source of his power and eventually his demise. While it helped him become a great and powerful leader, it was also his flaw that led to his exile. In the end, Oedipus could not escape his eventual fate as foretold by the gods.
ReplyDelete1675-1684
Creon: Still the king, the master of all things?
No more: here your power ends.
None of your power follows you through life.
Chorus: People of Thebes, my countrymen, look on Oedipus.
He solved the famous riddle with his brilliance,
he rose to power, a man beyond all power.
Who could behold his greatness without envy?
Now what a black sea of terror has overwhelmed him.
Now as we keep our watch and wait the final day,
count no man happy till he dies, free of pain at last.
Sophocles' mastery of word choice shines in this particular passage because by choosing certain words he lays out his point clearly. With this being the last passage of the play, words are everything. This is the last thing the audience either hears or reads, and the words need to be chosen precisely so that they leave with a complete understanding of the point of the play. When Sophocles uses the word brilliance it shows the respect the chorus has for Oedipus. Oedipus proved the wonder of his mind by solving a riddle no other man could solve. His brilliance deserved admiration and praise. Instead of just calling Oedipus smart, Sophocles calls him brilliant. This compliment is not to be taken lightly, and this recognition shows the audience why Oedipus is somewhat arrogant. He realizes the depth of his mind, and his ego grows as others realize it as well. The word greatness is not one to be glanced over. The audience should entirely consume the fact that Oedipus' greatness could not be easily matched. He used his brilliance to become great. Not only was he declared the Prince of Corinth, but he also became the King of Thebes. Not many can say that they have had that amount of power in more than one kingdom. Sophocles did not refer to Oedipus as a good king or an okay king; but instead he referred to Oedipus as a great king, a title that Oedipus truly deserved. These two words help the audience tremendously in understanding the point of the play.
When analyzing just this passage rather than the story as a whole, it provides a different perspective on the main point. In this passage we see a different perspective on Oedipus’ downfall. Rather than someone who was blinded by his own arrogance, his downfall seems more of a tragedy of someone who suffered an unfortunate series of events when trying to do what he thought was right. The final passage also sheds some light on the true face of Creon. Even though he denied any wish to become the leader and overthrow Oedipus throughout the story, Creon is awfully quick to assume the position and re-state how Oedipus will be “master of things.. No more.” This point is further pursued by the Chorus who questions “who could behold [Oedipus’] greatness without envy?” Implying that Creon has always been envious of Oedipus’ brilliance and power. While the passage still embodies some of the main point, it also acts as a contradiction, offering a different perspective.
The Point: Top heavy vertical leadership is not a good form of leadership because it results in one person being responsible for an entire city, as with Oedipus and Thebes. In addition, this increases how vain he is as a person which ultimately increases his curiosity of whether the prophecy is true. Due to this, Oedipus sets out to determine the truth and ends up committing the actions that he was trying to prevent (marrying his mother and killing his father).
ReplyDeletePassage: 1490-1500
"I'd never have come to this,
my father's murderer--never been branded mother's husband, all men see me now! Now, loathed by the goads, son of the mother I defiled coupling in my father's bed, spawning lives in the loins that spawned my wretched life. What grief can crown this grief?
It's mine alone, my destiny--I am Oedipus! How can I say you've chosen for the best? Better to die than be alive and blind.
What I did was best--don't lecture me, no more advice..."
Oedipus is displaying his vain perceptions by only focusing on himself and how things would've been different if he would've died as a child, instead of the shepherd saving his life. He cannot take blame for his actions and is seeing how his fate is beginning to attribute to his life unraveling.
Group 7
Delete